With our feature in The Economist this week, we have been getting a lot of feedback asking us if we have plans for other language products. We thought this would be a good opportunity to put the polling plug-in back up on the blog and ask you:
{democracy:2}
If we neglected a language you are interested in, please let us know in the comments.
Thanks,
Hank.
Betty
2 years ago
How do I vote? I click on the languages to no avail.
FuDaWei
2 years ago
I have little at stake here. My language plate is quite full, and I’d probably pop by most any language Praxis ultimately decides to add. I “would” dearly love some Hebrew, but I’m putting that out of my mind, since I think it would be foolhardy for Praxis to offer it at the moment.
Thus, I think I can be pretty neutral here. So, here’s my wrap-up:
1.) I’m startled to see German suddenly coming on strong. I have no idea why and would be curious to hear the lurkers voting for it to chime in and explain why. I think it’d make a fine podcast and probably easier on the tech crew since (for the most part) it uses the Roman alphabet. There are no German podcasts I’m aware of that are worth much. Most I’ve heard are excruciatingly slow; certainly no intermediate or advanced levels. There are, however, other great online resources for German — probably the best for any language. Both the BBC and Deutsche-Welle have fabulous stuff; particularly DW’s “Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten”, where they repeat the daily news at a slower speed and provide a transcript. (French Radio does this too, but not as well). I mentioned earlier that German would necessitate some strategic planning from Team-CPOD. I’m confident they’d quickly discover that the modular approach they use for Mandarin would cause then grief in a highly inflected and case-sensitive language — unless they prepared an adequate strategy in advance. I’ve already seen this problem pop up to a lesser degree in SpanishSense.
2.) Japanese is quite popular. Not surprised in the least. The 4-way alphabet is not as intimidating as they’d have you believe (except the Kanji part — but CPOD fans hardly fear that, eh?) … and there are NO TONES!!! It’s tense system is closer to Chinese; making heavier use of grammar markers. The sounds are already in the English inventory for the most part (though expect some trouble with the liquids and retroflexes). I’d call it a golden choice — EXCEPT that JapanesePod101 has staked a pretty strong claim to that audience. They are VERY good. Do you really want to go head-to-head with them? I think you could, I think you’d ultimately come out on top — but I’m not sure it’d be worth the headache. Maybe it would be; that’s a business decision for Hank to wrestle with.
3.) Arabic — the numbers of worldwide speakers that put it high on the “World Language” list are misleading, since they are lumping together something like 30 dialects into one imaginary monolithic language. They are NOT interchangeable. There is a so-called Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) and mass media (film and TV) is doing a fine job of leveling the field, they aren’t there quite yet. Still, even with that factored in, there are still plenty of people — more than many of the other languages cited — to make this a very plausible pursuit. I would certainly monitor it with great fascination. There are no significant Arabic podcasts at present. A few intrepid people — usually university students — attempt it from time to time, but they generally peter out after a few episodes.
4.) French. A great choice. A natural choice. And that (alas) might make it a bad choice. Unlike the others, there ARE good, solid French podcasts already available. Moreover, there are a tone of other resources and Team-CPOD would have to fight hard to get noticed in this glutted arena. On the other hand, to be totally fair, no other language on our list is as widespread. Take a look at the countries listings “French” as a primary or secondary language. That makes it very useful. Add to that a mountain of classical literature, philosophy, popular film, and such. It’s just hard to ignore French. (Heck, I was forced to take it in order to read Russian novels! There are entire paragraphs of “War and Peace” written in French, since the aristocracy considered Russian vulgar.)
5.) Cantonese — I can’t help thinking: I’m sure this has already occurred to Team-CPOD. If they are tepid toward the idea, I have to think that they’ve run the numbers and simply are not impressed (this is a business, after all). Then again, that’s just me speculating. They’ve never really said anything. Frankly, I can’t handle another Chinese language — but that’s just me. I can certainly see that other people are interested and they are correct: not only is there no significant Cantonese podcasts, there are only a handful of other online resources. That makes their advocates understandably vocal. It is a pity that this poll did not include a Cantonese option. Maybe it should be run again — with a link from the main page. I’d be curious to see is the strong cheerleading from CPOD regulars is shared by lurkers. If it is, then I’m inclined to wonder why it isn’t offered. But I wouldn’t take any bets.
NOTE TO KEN: Did you read my message about the notion of outsourcing? Is that maybe what Praxis is building toward once they have a framework in place they like (in which case I’m simply stating the incredibly obvious)? Is that not the ultimate in “modularity”?
chris(mandarin_student)
2 years ago
Auntie raises some interesting points..
I am finding that learning Cantonese on top of a small (but solid) base in Mandarin, works very well. I have to monitor the differences and similarities but if anything the Cantonese learning is improving my Mandarin (I think there maybe a little grammar bleed over lurking on the horizon but I am sure that will be temporary).
I talked to a Chinese guy recently who learnt German for similar reasons and he is convinced that his English is much better for it.
Japanese is a different story, that is really requiring me bed down into the mindset of a third language (I know I will gain a lot from knowing Hanzi later on though.
Ken Carroll
2 years ago
Fu Da Wei,
We have certainly considered your outsourcing idea. People have approahced us to license out the platform, franchise it, etc. The question is whether or not that would be ‘on strategy’.
Ken Carroll
Auntie
2 years ago
[QUOTE]
One thing that favors your proposal is that if Ken did decide he wanted to do this kind of pod cast he might be contributing to reversing the decline of a dialect (in a small way) as much as he would be involved in teaching a 2nd or 3rd language.
[/QUOTE]
Hello, I’m back (groan!). Michael Butler, you make a lot of sense to me. Funnily, from where I am, it does indeed seem like Mandarin is gaining ground, but at the same time I also have a strong sense that in China as well as in the overseas communities, dialects are beginning to flex their muscles. Simultaneously.
The Internet and — hate it, love it — globalization are allowing many speakers of “obscure” or “declining” languages to express themselves in their own vernacular, to build links with people from the same tribe.
In the case of China, Mandarin is already so strong that it can’t possibly be threatened any more by local dialects, which is why people are being allowed more leeway to enjoy their dialects these days. And as you would know from living in Taiwan, dialects are not an “either-or” situation. In fact, it would be pretty normal for an extended family in Kaohsiung to have, say, Mandarin and Hakka as everyday languages, and maybe even Japanese for the grandparents who may well have received their higher education in that language.
In the case of the overseas Chinese, I humbly suggest that China seems to be amazingly pragmatic. The country does of course welcome multilingual foreign talent employed by global blue-chip MNCs, but China also quietly welcomes Overseas Chinese investors who come to invest in relatively small ventures. After all, these OC are (almost invariably) investing their own money, ie., family money. They are not employees, they are classic Chinese entrepreneurs, with all the limitations and strengths that come with the label.
Here in Singapore, it’s dawning on us that the best man to send to hammer out a deal in a Teochew-speaking part of China may not always be the executive speaking polished Mandarin. Because sometimes the best man can be the Teochew-speaking guy whose family has roots in Swatow. His Teochew sounds rough, but heck, so does the Mandarin of the local government officials who are babysitting him. And unless somebody invents a machine to condense 70 years of corporate governance principles/basic stock market savvy into a single 10-minute session, dealing with that guy probably has the potential to be educational in some way. China’s economy is surging, but people are still at a very steep place in the learning curve. Hope nobody flames me for saying this!
My humble appeal to Ken et al is to please not rush into any assumptions regarding “heritage speakers”. So many of the changes associated with V3 (just see Hank’s remark!) seem to show a strong shift in priorities towards the features in “Premium” subscriptions, to the extent that it almost seems sometimes that only an idiot would still only remain in “Basic”, when “Premium” offers so much more. One answer from Ken to on this was in the category of, “duh!”.
What I am trying to say, is that for certain Overseas Chinese “heritage speakers”, Mandarin (or Cantonese or Teochew or Shanghainese) on their terms has nothing to do with vocab drills or flash cards, they will never need such features even though they do get a out of CPOD’s basic content. If they/we don’t upgrade, it’s not because we’re fools, it’s because the needs of this constituency are different. I suspect that such people would really appreciate any improvements to “Basic”, and they may even resent this new emphasis on the decision to upgrade to “Premium” as being something of a no-brainer.
ldfs
2 years ago
I voted for Russian, but had a hard time choosing between Russian and French. Both are languages I’ve already studied for several years, but I would really value something along the lines of ChinesePod that would focus on more everyday language and which will give me an opportunity to practice listening to native speakers and build useful vocabulary.
I don’t know what the data show about the effectiveness of ChinesePod for people who are using it “from scratch” as their only source of instruction. As much as I love it (and I do love it!) I don’t use it as a stand-alone. I use it in conjunction with traditional classroom instruction at my local university (I’m fortunate enough to be a staff member there so I get free tuition), and I also use Pimsleur. It’s hard for me to imagine learning how to come up with an original sentence in a language like Russian without a lot more information on the grammar than is typically given in a ChinesePod lesson, but maybe I’m just limited by my previous language learning experience, or maybe my brain is just no longer flexible enough to pick up enough information to understand the patterns just by getting a lot of input . . .
Andy
2 years ago
if you guys do Canto, I will personally come to Shanghai and pay my respects to you guys. The worldwide community depserately needs a good Canto source. It’s sad that Canto is often put into the dark….. my gosh, there are 70 million plus native speakers of Canto.
It is said even in the States, where there a huge Canto population, kids grow up not learning Canto effectively, and this because of lack of educational resources. Chinese pod can take the lead in this.
My goal is to learn Chinese, through which can be done with any dialect. My dialect of choice is Canto by far. It’s nice to learn PTH, but I only care to gain a working knowledge of it. In Canto, my goal is to be native proficient.
David
2 years ago
I like the idea of Cantonese very much. I voted for Portuguese, meaning the Brazilian variety please! Although given how slow I am with Chinese (using not just CPod but having a native speaker to talk with often!), I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to try another language too.
Sebastian
2 years ago
I’d like Cantonese and Tagalog
Henning
2 years ago
According to Wikipedia there are 6,500 (living) languages spoken on this planet. Considering that you might want to translate every language into every other you get a number of
42,243,500 podcasts
that you need to cover mid term.
加油!
Ken Carroll
2 years ago
Henning,
That’s a piece of cake. In fact, I could probably host and script them all myself!
Ken Carroll
Ken Carroll
2 years ago
A question: If you could just take a pill and immediately be able to speak a new language without having to study, how many pills would you take? And what would be the point? (It’s Friday afternoon. Where’s Mike in Jubei?)
Ken Carroll
Henning
2 years ago
Ken,
depends on the side effects I guess.
Chinese will probably be too big of a pill to be swallowed without pain. Maybe a suppository would be the intake of choice. Following a bottom up strategy.
Friday noon, indeed. It’s been a long, long week
FuDaWei
2 years ago
I think you oughta teach Czech.
When the Chinese get cocky about having a tough language, let them wrap their tongues around: “Strč prst skrz krk”.
Can we do html yet?
Ken Carroll
2 years ago
Henning,
I meant without any pain or side effects, but hey, I can see the appeal of the suppository! (Kind of.)
Fu Da Wei,
I totally see your point here. I think the UN really should deploy some vowels over there to the Czech republic to help those poor people.
Ken Carroll
FuDaWei
2 years ago
Interesting race. Russian gains a push. German closes in on Japanese. French, 10 points down earlier, regains the lead from Arabic.
Ken: I thought maybe they give the Czechs a Hawaiian island. They’d pick up some vowels and Hawaiian would get some consonants.
ldfs
2 years ago
Well Ken, are the available over the counter or do they require a prescription? I would be popping those pills like crazy. The more languages, the better. I can’t see any down side to knowing more languages.
Barry
2 years ago
Inuit, anyone?
Seriously, this is a great discussion. I have quite enough to be getting on with with learning Mandarin, but the possibility of learning Cantonese at some future point does interest me.
Joachim
2 years ago
Auntie:
“My mother’s youngest brother’s greatest fear was …”
Die größte Sorge des jüngsten Bruders meiner Mutter war …
… die weiterverbreitete Furcht vor der deutschen Grammatik.
Piece of cake!
Now, in Chinese please!
Joachim
2 years ago
Urgh, “weitverbreitete”, not “weitERverbreitete”.
Cough.
Ava
2 years ago
I think Arabic or Russian would be good.
Please don’t do French. There are plenty of materials already available for learning French. I already speak French, and I have never ever had any problems finding learning materials. Arabic, Japanese, and Russian, however, are difficult languages spoken by many people, and there is a lack of good resources for learning them.
Auntie
2 years ago
Dear Joachim, heh heh thanks. “Weitverbreitete” is the right word, it’s especially strong here in Singapore where I’m still feeling a bit terrorized by the all your case endings!
Hope everybody had a great weekend.
Keith Hill
2 years ago
I read that article in the Economist(hands up those who read it thoroughly).
The greatest language combination for an modern academic or professional commercial career would seem to be : English, Russian and Mandarin.
Perhaps you can explain why our present and evergrowing energy suppliers and consumers are not linked together in this language search by your corrispondents. Is it because the right people are not reading your we site? Reading Praxis web site seems to lead nowhere.
I haven’t seen any similar teacing/tutoring for Russian language. I feel I ought to know more about Praxis Chinese. I like the Skype combination mentioned in the article.
Jamie
2 years ago
Leaving aside all the interesting thoughts that have come up throughout the conversation, I’ll just throw in another vote for Hindi. There are probably other materials out there, but I do like the Praxis approach. And it would help a lot with my Bollywood-watching habit.
Auntie
2 years ago
Hi Jamie. I love Bollywood too (can’t escape it in Singapore, whatever your race). Have you discovered cuttingchai.com yet? It’s so entertaining — and surprisingly substantive — that my brother and I were in tears a couple of times, we were laughing so hard. Even my serious brother, who’s a lawyer and a Daddy, started wishing me (sic) “Fermelinge!”.
Hope you enjoy it!
Ken Carroll
2 years ago
Although I’ve forgotten most of it, I still have a deep and abiding love for the Italian language. However, it’s getting the cold shoulder in this poll – or relatively so. Che macello!
Ken Carroll
Henning
2 years ago
My wife would love Italian. She would eventually be able to follow her beloved Operas.
FuDaWei
2 years ago
http://www.learnitalianpod.com/
Henning
2 years ago
Thanks FuDaWei!
The look & feel and terminology of that site feel strangly familiar…
Ken Carroll
2 years ago
Henning,
Agreed. Familar in a kind of V2 way, don’t you think?
Ken Carroll
Osirius
2 years ago
As for me russian,I never thought about cantonese or shanghainese, but now I think there is sense of makink these courses, as well I’m interested in korean and arabic.As for french,japanese and italian, there are similiar sites as chinesepod,so I think we can use them.So my faivorit is shanghainese and cantonese.If only from the list than korean and arabic.
Jimmy B
2 years ago
Not the same thing as a CPod, but I just discovered Deutsche Welle’s free web based language training…
http://www.dw-world.com/dw/0,2142,2469,00.html#
Cool!
Bazza 白锐
2 years ago
Just wondering, does anyone the what the most widely written language in the world? English? Simplified Chinese?
Henning
2 years ago
Bazza,
I think it is English. Certainly it is on the web.
Just do a Google search for “from”
6.430.000.000 hits.
and “从”:
421.000.000
Now I know that “measure” is less than valid – among other considerations one would have to at least check that equally frequent words of the respective languages are used, and that the search robots scan the Chinese web adequately.
But the difference is so drastic, that I think that it certainly can serve as a valid indicator.
gregg
2 years ago
heaven and earth we fear not, what we do fear is a mandarin-speaking ChinesePod not speaking cantonese!
would love to see your excellent format that has vastly improved my gwokyue, to also offer gwongdungwa. these two dialects are the 800lb P/R gorillas of china.
Chris
2 years ago
I would vote for Arabic, portugese then french
Matt
2 years ago
I am not sure whether anyone will see this but I woud just like to say something. I had seen some discussion earlier about out-sourcing and getting other people in other locations to do stuff. I don’t think that all the languages mentioned here can just be done from Shanghai. I mean if we want someone teaching something like Arabic or Hindi then you may need it to be done from somewhere else. Are you always going to be able to find an Arabic or Indian person in Shanghai?
Hank Horkoff
2 years ago
Matt,
That is a very good question. In many ways Shanghai, or New Shanghai if you will, is positioned to be in the top cities of the 21st Century and we have been very fortunate to have been able to attract excellent people – either here already or by invitation. We have found that there is a ‘Praxis way’ to teaching with this format that is best learned from daily contact with everyone else here in Shanghai.
That said, there is nothing saying we won’t have other Praxis locations in the future or even a de-centralized Praxis-like platform to empower other language podcasters around the world. We are just taking things step-by-step at the moment and appreciate all the community input to help us along.
Catherine
1 year ago
How about Indonesian?
Carolina
1 year ago
Well…. i want to learn english, its really necesary today for everyone !!!!!
Feliciano gomes
1 year ago
Cantonese, please!
Joanna
1 year ago
Indonesian would be wonderful. I used to learn it and found that despite having so many speakers there is a serious lack of podcasts or other material designed for people who want to learn on their own.
cwmartz
1 year ago
So what’s the answer Praxis – this has been going on for almost a year and I’m hankerin’ for yet another Praxis language. I read an intereting article that rated languages by 6 different criteria (numboer of speakers, number of contires, economic strength, culture etc) English had top score of 37, French was second with 24 then spanish with 20. Chinese was 6th with 14. So I’m now inspired to add French to my other languages. Are you guys working on a next language?
p.s.
(Russian was 4th and Arabic was 5th, German was 7th)
cwm
Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog)
1 year ago
I’m a Korean speaker, as well as a former Mandarin speaker (brushing back up with ChinesePod — thank you Praxis!), and I can say that the Korean language is not a “world” language.
Omar
10 months ago
Aside from French, Italian, English, Chinese, Spanish, I would like praxis to offer German and Russian language. I studied Korean also, but there are only few people to talk to considering that there are a small number of native speakers. Now, I forgot it. I just wasted my time.
Omar
10 months ago
Oh, I want to suggest to Chinese pod and also to other languages in Praxis to teach writing also. By way of video or computer program. I think you lack that aspect.
Katherine
4 months ago
I would love to see GermanPod!!!